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Norm Sauceman

Why is it?

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OK, I am feeling a bit down right now but have some things on my chest that need to be released.

Why does adaptive equipment for disabled folks cost so much more that it would if it were not for the disabled?

Why do most disabled hunts take place AFTER the regular hunts take place and the game is either spooked out of their mind or completely nocturnal?

Why is it that folks hesitate or avoid all together requests from disabled folks to go hunting?

TRUE story... I was called last year and invited to be on another television show. I was told I would be hunting on Oklahoma on a large 25,000 acre ranch managed for huge record book bucks.. I was getting excited. I asked about cost and they told me the prices - Licenses, fees and such..it was going to cost right at $3,700.. I thought for a minute and thought, well, it was on a ranch for monster bucks, right? SO, I asked him what size bucks would I be seeing and what size buck was I going to be allowed to kill. He cleared his throat and said this was a doe-only hunt. I said, W...H...A...T..??? He said it was for does and it was going to be a show about the ranch and its work with disabled folks... I said W...H...A...T...??? He repeated himself then I started in on him...He was speechless when I got done with him and apologized and said he just did not think about all of what I filled him in on.

Was I wrong?

Thanks, I feel a little bit better now.

:robot: With all the Titanium I have had in my body (42 pieces total so far) I think this is my new mascot...LOL

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No, Norm, you were not wrong in telling the guy off. I think we discussed this in Alaska. Seems to me the guy was wanting to use the disabled for his own self promotion and a profit to boot. Sure would have liked to hear that discussion!:phone:

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No, Norm, you were not wrong in telling the guy off. I think we discussed this in Alaska. Seems to me the guy was wanting to use the disabled for his own self promotion and a profit to boot. Sure would have liked to hear that discussion!:phone:

I agree totally.

A few years ago, I helped quite a bit with Wheeling Sportsman. The expense and time it took to do this was substantial. There was never a cost involved, and the hunters were allowed to take either a doe, or a buck (the bucks were the same as the members were allowed, basically 120+ class deer). Countless hours were involved getting special blinds made up for wheelchair accessibility and such. My uncle really put a lot of his personal money into it and asked for nothing in return. We did this for about 5 years running. I had the pleasure of meeting some extraordinary guys, even one paraplegic that shot a .243 mounted on a football helmet with a trigger he activated by blowing on a tube. I also had the privilege of hunting with some professional atheletes and great guys like Preston Pitman. There were some downsides other than the expense. Quite a few guys were hunting that were no more disabled than I was. Sorry but I just don't think emphysema should qualify you for this privilege, esp when you refuse to quit smoking, even in the stand and with an oxygen tank - just my humble opinion.

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Norm, I wish I could give you and everyone else a good solid answer to your questions but in my opinion there just isn't any. I have been involved with helping kids that are terminally ill or have life altering medical conditions go on hunting, fishing, and outdoor adventures since 2004. In those years I have met some very interesting people from all across the United States. On the other side there are a few bad apples out there that try to ruin or hinder such programs or take advantage of them. I have always heard it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around, but there are days I would like to see if that holds up or not. I believe the adaptive equipment some hunters need cost more due to either totally having to fabricate something new or completely alter something that has already been made....................things you already know I am sure. I feel very fortunate in all my dealing the past 5 years that anytime we needed something for a hunt, there has always been someone around to help make or donate it for the hunt. Don't get me wrong there are times it takes 40-50 phone calls before you find that person. As for the hunting itself.......................most of the hunts we have done are for trophy animals during normal hunting seasons. NOW what you call a trophy and what a 15 yr old girl with cerebral palsy or brain cancer calls a trophy may be two different things. I haven't a clue to what the hunting conditions/regulations are in your neck of the woods, but you should be allowed to hunt during ANY season. As for folks shying away from helping a disabled/physically challenged hunter is probably due to the lack of knowledge on their part. They have never delt with it so they are pretty clueless and what we don't know about we usually shy away from. I know the very first hunt I was involved in, I was so afraid that I was going to screw it up that I just about made myself sick before the hunt ever started. Once the hunt was underway and I realized we were all still humans, things were fine. I received an education that weekend that has stuck with me everyday since. Sometimes folks need to be educated before they get involved.

Here in Texas we are very very fortunate to work with a good group of outfitters and ranchers that donate hunts for our program. Without their generosity we would not be able to do what we do. There are people out there that are willing to help, finding them may be the hardest part of the whole deal. Norm, if there was something I could do to help out your situation I would in a heartbeat!!!

Kurt Bryan

President

Texas Outdoor C.H.I.L.D.

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i think that was the right idea norm im in the same situation your in except i dont call my self disabled i just can't do everything that i use to do i got 4 rods and 36 screws in my back holding up my spinal cord..... i had spinal cord cancer and after radion my pocket inbetween my spine collapsed and because of that i get to use a crossbow but still climb up in my stand fro shotgun season like i normally would lol

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3700 bucks for a doe??? you were right to tell him a thing or 2. now, from experience i'll tell you that a handicapped hunter required a bunch more work, from start to finish. when i was an outfitter, we did that service for the regular price and most of the time for free. but it is much more work.

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I just wanted to say I think it sad to see how you were treated Norm. Some people just need to be told how bad they are acting. Someday I want to be able to get my outfitters license and lease up some land and have a week of hunts for just disabled people, especially for youth and their parents and or families. I hope that I will not only be able to offer these hunts for free, but that I will be able to go the extra step in covering all the cost for the people or families to travel out to my ranch.

~ NBomb500

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My buddy is hot to do a bear hunt next year. So I started calling around to see who and where we would end up. I called and talked with this one guy nad it sounded real good until I asked him if he was going to put us on stand and bring us out of the woods in the daark. He said NO. I told him I am disabled and need the help, and that SOB told me I should book a hunt with someone else.

GLADLY, ya moron!

People give me a hard time because I do a preserve hunt each year in New York. But let me tell you about them. I go to Cold Brook, in Homer and the guide there is David Perry. Dave, my hunting partner Dan and I have been together now for five years. And Dave knows my abilities and knows how to take care of me when I am having one of my "off" days. If I am o.k. he puts me on stand and leaves me in the woods for hours on end. He knows what I can do with my longbow and/or muzzleloaders. However if I tell him I am a little off today, he will make sure I am within reach, or he will give me a guided, semi-guided or even just sit on the vehicle and take me to where I need to be, and get me into a shooting solution.

I love it at Cold Brook and highly reccommned them to anyone with a disability.

You, too will go back year after year. They take really great care of everyone.

Just my .02cents worth!

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that guy was a jerk, you were right to tell him off.

NOW...the adaptive equipment cost's....I'll answer you from a buisness/sale perspective....the over all amount of people you are selling say a trigger addapter (i'm just making something up as an example) to is much small that the total amount of people that say you whold be able to sell a grunt call too....so if you have an extreamly small demand and alot of the dissability stuff is prob custome to the individuals specific need. So if you cant mass produce the same over and over and over the price goes stright threw the roof.

Ex. The exhaust company I worked at made several type's of exhaust stuff....When we made ford, or chevy stuff it was cheap and easy to make. BUT we made 14in exhaust for gravel pit dump trucks and when we made them it took most of a day to make 1 and the price was around 8,500 per part.

But i get where your coming from, to many people take advantage of others disabilities...

SORRY to be so long winded.

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Norm, here is my take on this having a perm disability in my back. I still can get around quite well for this problem,

I just don't let it be a problem.

But here goes. This guy that called you should have offered to pay you instead of you paying a fee, after all he has sponsors, and was going to film this for his benefit and promotion.

He should have offered to put you first in line of the season for a nice buck.

If it was my operation, that is the way I would have run it.

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Hey Norm!

I thought you might want to know Hunters Helping Hunters has expanded its definition of medical costs to include adaptive equipment if there is a verifiable disability or medical condition that prevents the hunter from hunting without the device. AS several of you have mentioned, the cost of some of the equipment causes us to seek out other organizations to go in with HHH to cover the cost. We also conduct an extensive screening process to weed out the "bad apples" mentioned in the other post. AS you know, HHH does not help out with hunts but offset medical costs so the hunter can use their resources to be able to go hunting. Hopefully, with Kathleen's help as VP of Fundraising, we can have enough incoming donations to keep this up. You are right that the costs are pretty heavy.

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No, Norm, you were not wrong in telling the guy off. I think we discussed this in Alaska. Seems to me the guy was wanting to use the disabled for his own self promotion and a profit to boot. Sure would have liked to hear that discussion!:phone:

are you cereal right now?

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